When it comes to portraying the Joker, Gotham’s ultimate arch-villain, only a handful of Hollywood's elite actors have dared to take on the role. Joaquin Phoenix, who won an Academy Award for his haunting portrayal in Todd Phillips' 2019 Joker, recently revealed on Rick Rubin’s Tetragrammaton podcast that he was initially considered for the part in Christopher Nolan’s The Dark Knight—the role that eventually went to Heath Ledger.
Phoenix admitted that he and director Christopher Nolan had discussed the possibility of him taking on the iconic role, but it never moved forward. “It wasn’t going to happen for a number of reasons. I wasn’t ready then,” Phoenix shared. “It’s one of those things where you ask yourself, ‘Why am I not doing this? What’s stopping me?’ It wasn’t about me; there was something else in play.” Reflecting on Ledger’s unforgettable portrayal, Phoenix added, “I can’t imagine what The Dark Knight would be without Heath’s performance. It was meant to be him.”
A Glimpse of What Could Have Been
In Nolan’s 2008 film The Dark Knight, Ledger’s Joker became legendary, capturing the character’s chaotic essence in one of his final and most memorable roles. Released after his passing in February 2008, Ledger’s portrayal set a new benchmark for comic book villains, blending unpredictability with a sinister charm that continues to influence the genre. At the time, Phoenix felt a similar role might not suit him, unsure if he could bring what the part demanded.
He even hinted that Nolan might have shared that sentiment: “I don’t know if he was thinking, ‘You’re definitely the person for this,’” Phoenix reflected, adding, “Maybe he was also like, ‘You’re not the guy.’”
Phoenix's Long Road to Joker
In 2019, over a decade after The Dark Knight, Phoenix’s chance to portray the iconic villain came in Todd Phillips’ origin story Joker, which was not tied to Batman or any previous franchise timeline. The film, rooted in gritty realism, dives into the psychological breakdown of Arthur Fleck, a man ignored by society. Reflecting on the opportunity, Phoenix said to Rubin, “To me, it was a big movie. It was $55 million—a major budget for me but a small one for Todd [Phillips].” Having primarily worked with indie directors on smaller projects in the 2010s, including Paul Thomas Anderson (The Master), James Gray (Two Lovers), and Lynne Ramsay (You Were Never Really Here), the idea of doing a film like Joker felt daunting but exciting. “It was my first studio movie in a long time,” he noted.
Phillips convinced Phoenix to take the leap by promising that Joker would be different from the average superhero movie. Despite Warner Bros. backing, Phillips assured Phoenix they would retain the creative freedom typical of independent films but with resources to fully execute their vision. This freedom allowed Phoenix to dive into Arthur’s troubled psyche with total commitment, a factor he later acknowledged as crucial to his performance.
A Surprise Success
Joker shattered expectations, becoming one of the highest-grossing R-rated films of all time and sweeping through award season with critical acclaim. Phoenix’s dedication paid off as he won the Academy Award for Best Actor, and the film stood out from the superhero genre’s typical offerings, blending dark social commentary with an unforgettable character study. Both Phoenix and Ledger ultimately claimed Oscars for their portrayals, solidifying the Joker's status as one of cinema’s most iconic villains.
Following the success, Phoenix returned for the sequel, Joker: Folie à Deux, a unique musical take on the character that also stars Lady Gaga. With an expanded budget of $200 million, Phillips is pushing boundaries further in an ambitious exploration of Gotham’s dark psyche, building upon the legacy Ledger and Phoenix crafted.